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User: elena_ravich



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it should be 16 for boys and 18 for girls but girls shouldn't have sex before marriage

Posted in Views on homosexuality on 2010-08-26 20:41:50

DGNJ123, would you please specify what in your opinion is the real question? You say, “Here’s the real question” but you never tell us what it is. You are making a lot of statements and you are asking some questions but as far as I can see you never get round to telling us what the real question is. I have no difficulties agreeing with much of what you say about freedom and personal rights as long as we are talking about the secular society. But a church (Christian or other denomination) teaches a belief or a creed and a morality. It must be assumed that those who are members of the church believe in what the church teaches and agree with the moral rules that spring from the church’s teaching. If that is the case they should also be willing to submit to judgement by the church in moral matters. I have not suggested that anybody should be subject to punishment by a church they do not belong to. But if you claim to belong in a congregation and to believe in the teaching of the church then you cannot make an exception when it comes to exactly the kinds of sin that you personally like to indulge in. As for what you call questions: 1. No I am not able to answer the question because the question is nonsense. To claim that a book is violent is meaningless. When I read the question I come to think of the NAZI book burnings in the 1930s – is that what you with all your talk about freedom want to return to? The Bible tells a history that certainly is violent but violence has been very common in human history from the beginning and up to now. 2. How should anybody be able to answer such a question when we know very well that many wars have been fought in the name of religion and that religion has been used and abused by rulers and politicians at all times? That religion just like anything else is abused and that terrible crimes are committed in the name of religion does not make religion wrong. Terrible crimes have also been committed in the name of love but I doubt that you will use that as an excuse for saying that love is wrong. 3. and 4. You are arguing from a scientific and secular point of view but it is meaningless when what we are talking about is religion. Science does not acknowledge that God is almighty and everything is possible for God. Religion must assume that God is almighty and can do whatever he wants no matter if it is against what human science says is possible. You are right when saying that I cannot pretend to know exactly what the persons who wrote the different chapters of the Bible meant. There are many interpretations and also many translations and every translation is also an interpretation. But learned men have studied and discussed and interpreted as long as there have been written sources and their wisdom is accumulated in the teaching of the church I belong to. I believe in the teaching of my church and I am not so presumptuous that I expect to understand the meaning of all God does and has done or to always and in all things understand the reasons for his demands. As I read your message you seem to believe that all we need to regulate peoples behaviour are the secular laws but no morality. I must admit that I would not like to live in a society like that because it would be a society where the jungle law is ruling. Now I will like to ask you a question: Why is it a problem for you if people who of their own free will belong to a church and claim to believe in the creed and teaching of this church also submit themselves to be judged by this church in religious and moral matters? All churches and religions I know of are teaching moral values and rules that are stricter and (in my opinion) better than what is commonly expected and accepted behaviour in most societies/countries. In my opinion much would be better if the churches dared to again really be moral authorities and demanded that their members submitted to judgement and punishment in these matters.
Just for your information: I live in a part of the world where practising homosexuality up to the collapse of the Soviet Union about 20 years ago was a crime but I support not 100% but 1000% that this was changed.

Posted in Views on homosexuality on 2010-08-25 23:26:35

Hi Skyfox. Good that we are able to respect other people having other opinions than our own. I respect your opinions and your right to express them but I do not think that your argumentation is fair. I do not think that I advocated that homosexuals should be publicly humiliated or beaten in order to correct them, at least not to correct them for being homosexual. I do not believe that any earthly authority should ever punish anybody for whatever his or her sexual or other orientation might be. Feelings and thoughts can be sinful and inappropriate but it must be a matter between the individual and God. I assume that no matter your opinions concerning homosexuality do you agree that some kinds of sexuality are inappropriate and practising them cannot be tolerated? But I can respect and even admire a person who knows that his or her sexuality is not appropriate and who therefore controls it and abstains from sinning by practising it. How big and important a role the church has in the country and society has differed a lot and only God can say how it will be in future. But you are right that the church is not exempt from civil law. I just do not understand why that should prevent the church from punishing those who by their own free choice are members of the church. If they refuse to accept the church’s authority to judge and punish them in matters of morality then they just have to leave the church. Maybe the law is different in your country but where I live it is legal to punish someone who consents to the punishment.
Then you say that it (homosexuality) is how the mind of the person formed when they were developing before birth. That is your opinion but many homosexuals and other disagree with it. I recently read an article about a homosexual man who has published a book about his homosexuality: He claims that he became homosexual because the women were many and domineering in his childhood. For me it does not really matter what has made some people homosexual and I do not condemn them for being homosexual. What matters to me is that certain kinds of sexual activities from my religious viewpoint must be seen as immoral and sinful. It is not only homosexual activities that are sinful and we heterosexual people are certainly capable of sinning just as much as the homosexual. What I suggested was not that the church should punish especially practising homosexuals, but that the church should again become a real moral authority and punish those who sin against good Christian morality no matter what their sexual orientation is. Then finally you claim that what I suggest has always failed and that punishment will not make the sinners change and become better humans. How you can claim that punishment has always failed I do not understand. It is one of those things that is so easy and also popular to say but cannot be proved and of course is not true. Maybe the punishment fails to change the punished person but when has to change the sinner become the only reason for punishing? What I mean is that if a man kills his mother-in-law the most important reason for punishing him is not to teach him that it is wrong to kill mothers-in-law. The important reason is not even to prevent him from killing mothers-in-law. No, the most important reason for punishing him is to prevent mothers-in-law from being killed. Very often the general deterrent is the most important reason for punishing but it is so often forgotten when people discuss if punishment is productive or not. You are of course free to disagree but I am certain that decency and good morality will suddenly become fashionable and increase dramatically when the congregation first learns that immorality and immodesty is actually punished. My guess is that not only practising homosexuality but also for instance being promiscuous or adulterous will suddenly seem less attractive to those who are tempted.
Finally I must say that you must not confuse love with sex. When you argue that that love is never a sin it is simply too cheap and propagandistic. What we disagree on is not love but the practising of a certain kind of sex. I am sure that you will say that if an adult man has sex with a 10 years old girl then it is sinful and inappropriate and must be punished no matter how much the man loves the girl. If two men love each other or two women love each other then it is not for me to condemn them or their love. Maybe their love is sinful and maybe it is not but as long as they do not practise homosexual sex it is a matter only for The Almighty to judge. It is not any different from if I should desire our neighbour or the postman: It is a sin no doubt but also a matter only between God and me. But if I actually commit adultery it is suddenly a different matter and by doing it I would have expelled myself from the church and Christian community until I had expiated and been absolved.

Posted in Views on homosexuality on 2010-08-21 12:21:36

The poll does not give me an opportunity to answer the question, “Regardless of the fact that homosexuality may be innate, should homosexual activity be illegal? “ I know that it is against God’s law to practise homosexuality. Any kind of homosexual activities are sinful and that is just something we as Christians have to accept no matter if we understand the reason for it or not. But I do not think that it can ever be the lawmakers and the legal system’s job to regulate how two adult people have consensual sex without harming anybody. I believe that it offends God when two people practise homosexuality but I trust that God is much better at judging them and dealing with them than the legal system can be. Society and the legal system should deal with secular matters and leave the moral matters to God and his church. I think that the Church should have the authority again to enforce good Christian morality and values. It would be right for the church to punish those who belong to it and who commits serious sins such as practising homosexuality. Being exposed in the pillory or being birched in front of the congregation will perhaps not make the sinners better or the homosexuals heterosexual but it would set a good example to others and be an effective deterrent.

Posted in Is God intervening in today's world? on 2010-08-21 11:44:08

It is not right to ask the way you do. Remember that God created the world, as it is with sunny days, rainy days, storms, drought, flooding, freezing polar areas and warm tropical areas, birth and death, war and peace, good and bad. All are part of earthly conditions and God has decided what the earthly conditions should be.. God never said that earth should be like the Garden of Eden where everything is good. We sinned and had to leave the Garden of Eden.
We must live in the world, as it is, accept the conditions, worship god, try to be good and pious and not expect God to change the world into a paradise.