A Spanking Poll

Hi, Mr. RobJo,

Thought of you several time during vacation. Back at the office this morning after three weeks in a vacation rental house on a lake in New Hampshire with wife, two boys, daughter-in-law and grandson, now 3. Older boy David is Latin and German teacher in a small combined middle school/high school in upstate New York and starts in two weeks: Latin I and Ii for 6th & 7th graders and a combined German IV and V class for 11th & 12th graders. They combine IV and V into one class and do each year's work every other year, but by then the kids can handle grammar & vocabulary well enough to do it O.K.

Younger boy Frank is a theology student preparing for the ministry, engaged to an operating room nurse. Both boys were high school and college swimmers, as was I, and we three had some good times water skiing and several mile swims together. I can still wear my college Adidas racing suits and try to keep my build pretty good, though mostly lifting and running now. No pool anywhere near close to where we live, and when I turned 40 I tried to do some competitive masters' swimming, but it was just too far to drive to a pool enough times a week. School takes too much out of me.

What made me think of you was David's request that I bring along the rubber paddle for him to consider for Davey, who will turn 4 soon. David wants to start out with something that has the potential to hurt enough even in high school years and mostly wanted to be convinced that he could control the rubber paddle enough to make it O.K. but not excessive for his boy. I used a wood paddle on him and Frank until middle school and then a lexan paddle with about a dozen holes, which "improved" the punishment experience quite a bit!

I told David that I didn't want to appear mean, but I thought he really should feel that thing at its worst and proposed to "demonstrate" it on him. Frank was there when we talked about it, laughed a bit, but after a while David though that he also should let me give him a demonstration, given his hopes to have kids and likely to some day face this decision. I asked the boys if they cared to lick each other, and without hesitation they told me that it was a dad's prerogative to lick his boys but NOT boys to lick each other.

So we agreed to get our wives and Davey out of the house for about an hour some afternoon when swimming was nice, and I told both guys I wanted them in jocks, which was how I always thrashed them as punishment when they were kids. I think that may have slightly psyched them out, too, which for a situation like that was just fine. :-)

I first licked each one the way I would a four-year-old, and they were totally convinced that the rubber paddle can be completely controlled and need not hurt too bad for a little boy. I then told them that each time I got something I was going to use on them, I got it first from a friend -- AND that when I got a rubber paddle to consider for recommending to parents, the middle school principal and I "demonstrated" it on each other at its worst. So I was not proposing to give them something I'd not got, and they found that at least "interesting" and made some good jokes about it. But trust me, by the time they had "experienced" that thing, they were NOT JOKING!!!

I asked who wanted to go first, and Frank said the big brother should show the way. Yeah, nice of him, eh? So I at the same time showed them something they'd never experienced as kids: a thrashing bent over my leg. It's really a daunting position, as I assume your boys have discovered by now, and I explained and demonstrated how to restrain a boy so he doesn't wiggle even to the point of sliding off your leg: making him reach back with his right hand so you can grab his right wrist and press down on his back, so he can't try to reach back and cover his behind when the sting gets really bad. AND most especially, clamping his legs down with your right leg, so he can't kick or otherwise wiggle.

When I got to that point, I sorta joked with the boy, "Feels like you're in a trap, doesn't it?" And as soon as they agreed that it did, I started licking it on, one lick per year of age, which at age 28 and 24 becomes a LOT of FIRE on your butt!!! In each case, I started with ten licks good and hard right at the very bottom of their butts, where it hurts especially had, and while they didn't cry per se, I gotta say, I've not heard either of them yell like that since they last got thrashed in their teen years, David at 16 and Frank at 17.

If I recall your comment correctly, you've been down this road, too, just like I have, and know how bad that incredibly fiery sting burns after about five or six licks. My dad told me that he never felt the lesson has begun until I was crying really hard, and trust me, a "lesson" from my dad seemed to go on and on!!! I'm convinced that sufficient duration is an important part of corporal punishment, so the youngster has enough time to really get taken over by the terror and the anguish of that kind of punishment. Would you agree?

I want to comment on several other things, but this is getting long, and I must soon go to a meeting. We're doing a last-minute hire: an English teacher with health issues got told to quit teaching, and this afternoon we're going to interview several prospective replacements.

More later.

Joe Verdi

Hi again, RobJo,

Well, we hired an English teacher, a girl from the next school district who will graduate at the end of the summer school session. How's THAT for stepping right into a job. I've known her, and am pleased that she'll be OUR teacher instead of some other school's teacher. She did student teaching with us, no less.

I did a bit of reading in New Hampshire, including some studies on good and bad effects of uniform student dress code or even of actual uniforms such as some Catholic schools require, including neck ties for boys. I'm sick and tired of guys walking around our school with their pants so low you can see even 5" or 6" of their boxer shorts!! What is your wife's attitude about this in general or even in particular?

You wrote that she's a Ph.D. candidate, which is really admirable. Does she have a dissertation topic yet? What's it about? Where is she taking her doctorate? Any idea when she'll be granted the degree? I doubt that I'll ever do that, given my current station in life and how much I like my work and my school.

Two amazing events after we got home late yesterday afternoon. We were hardly home more than a half hour until the widow next door with the boy I've "fathered" in various ways called and reported that he'd fallen for the cigarette thing once again and deserved to be thrashed. I told her I was really sorry about this and took no pleasure whatsoever in punishing him BUT that, yes, he did deserve it all over again. Indeed, I told her I thought he needed it worse than last time, and was she O.K. with that? She was, and she told me I should tell Jack that when I talk with him before I lick him.

After about ten minutes, he showed up at the kitchen door in shorts and a supporter and flip-flops, and when I came to the door, he told me what he'd done and that he deserved the paddle again. I asked him in, and we talked about it for a bit, and I finally asked him if he understood that perhaps he needed it worse, since this was the second time. He agreed, and I told him to get ride of his flip-flops and shorts and lean across my leg.

I sensed that he was feeling really guilty, since he had waited two days until we got home to get his just reward for his misbehavior, and he seemed already on the edge of crying when he went over my leg. So I worked fast once he bent over: grabbed his right wrist with my left hand, clamped his legs down with my right leg, and absolutely thrashed the daylights out of him!!!!! I decided that at age 14, the 14_+4+1 formula was not enough and determined to give him 22 licks, 7 at the very bottom of his behind, plus 6 further up on the right side and then the same on the left side, plus 3 more back where it started. That meant 10 where it hurts the worst! He started crying as per the first lick but but about 5 or 6 he started screaming so bad, I'm sure anyone walking by the house heard it! And he screamed worse and worse as he kept getting it and then cried really hard for a least several minuter after it was over, plus gradually calming down after that. I don't think I ever gave either of my boys so terrible a thrashing.

We talked for at least a half hour after he was pretty much calmed down, and he seemed really embarrassed that he needed it the second time. At one point I asked him what his dad would think of him, just like I did the other time he got thrashed for smoking, and that once again made him start crying all over again.

So we'll hope this did it! I suspect he did not sit down the rest of the evening, and he probably lay in bed on his stomach for the night. Sad but necessary. Indeed, I recall that you serve this rôle with some youngsters who have no dad, and it's tough but, in the very best sense of the words, tough love.

Indeed, have you needed to do much of this kind of punishment with any of your own boys in the past number of weeks? Do you tend toward the rubber paddle with the boy over your leg, or with the rubber strap with your boy under your arm and with a hard cup on -- and then licks that curl right around to his anterior side as well? That has GOT to hurt really bad, though I suspect your boys can all learn the lesson over your leg and with the rubber paddle carefully and very aggressively setting the entire behind on FIRE!.

The other event last evening was less sad but still sorta unhappy. One of the guys on our baseball team, father of a girl starting 9th grade and a boy starting 6th grade this Fall, asked me if he could bring his newly-acquired rubber paddle over to our house to talk about it and get an honest demonstration, adjusted upward for his years of age. I told him I'd got it myself whenever I started using a given thing on my boys AND that when we decided to recommend rubber paddles to parents I'd got a VERY good dose of that thing from the middle school principal -- and vice verse, so we both knew what it was like. So I told him I honored him for his request, and so long as he was open to getting it pretty bad, I'd give it to him -- and he should show up with a jock under his shorts.

He's been using a belt with his girl through her clothing and his boy straight to the behind, holding them under his left arm. He said he'd probably keep that up with his girl, though he thinks she might be finished with corporal punishment. He was absolutely ready to start making it worse and worse for his boy as he started moving through middle school years and even into high school, if necessary, and thus he wanted it from me full force.

I talked him through the various reasons and advantages of licking a boy leaning over your leg and had him assume that position and experience the feeling of giving me his right wrist and then feeling me clamp his legs down -- and with explanations every step of the way, with recommendation that he should start thrashing his boy that way. And the last thing before I started letting him feel the paddle, I commented to him, "Sorta feels like you're in a trap, doesn't it?" to which he agreed. One second later, I started the licks, in this case TEN at the bottom of his butt, plus 10 further up each side (total 20) and then three more at the very bottom of his butt: 33 licks, all rapid-fire and as hard as I could lick it on.

He absolutely lost it after a while and actually cried like a teen-age boy. As soon as he had it all, I released him and helped him up and shock his hand, and told him he should take it easy on his boy at first, given how bad that thing stings. But it was not lost on him how effective that thing can be for a teen-age boy, especially in that position. So he got what he wanted: a good, hard thrashing, complete and thorough, and bad enough, he just couldn't stand it. Tell me about it: I couldn't either when my peer principal licked me with that thing!!!

If I remember, you told me you did the same thing, and I suspect lots of loving dads have done so. Have you ever told your boys that YOU yourself got it before you started using it on them? What did they make of that? I never told my boys until we had that strange session in New Hampshire during vacation/

Gotta get to bed, since I wanna go talk with the football team at the start of their second day of practice tomorrow morning. I have a pact with most of the boys' dads that certain kinds of unduly aggressive playing misbehavior should yield the paddle or whatever at home that night. We have basically excellent boys on the team and on the soccer and cross country teams, too, One of our top footballers is also a terrific state-level violinist and drives about an hour and half most Saturday mornings to get lessons with a top teacher. He's talking about going to some top music conservatory after high school. he's not got a huge build, but he's strong, fast, and knows the tactics of the game amazingly well. You'd be proud to have him as your son.

Indeed, how's it with your boy out for football? Your other boys playing any fall sports, too>?

Take care.

Joe Verdi

Hey Joe:

Glad you and family enjoyed your vacation. My wife and I will go away for some R&R a week after next for 10 days. Sons will stay at my MD Bros house on the farm. School starts this week, and two oldest are in sports, BobJo varsity football and Jake cross country JV.

Anna's dissertation is finished, will present it this Fall. Texas AM is where she is going-and does quite well! Dissertation is on the Practice of male corporal punishment in Texas public schools and the effect on academic achievment! Guess she's had lots to study with just me and my family of Bros! She gets he Phd in Counselling psychology! Hopes to open practice with my Brother.

Man-u r a good Dude for taking on the father role of the neighbor's son. He deserved the whipping u gave him when u came home, have whipped BobJo when I found him smoking! He sure learned not to try it again! Have continued to use my different spanking implements, actually used just about everyone since our last chat. BobJo got involved at a sex den-was caught by my Bro, and I gave him a whipping in Dads # 3 barn-used the razor strop, and had him with his hands tied to a beam and thrashed him in front of 2 of his uncles and 2 -15 yr old cousins who thought he was another" Jock Hero "cuzz, goin to that hell hole! I got it shut down, and the dudes were scared that they'd be next gettin stripped, tied and whipped in the barn!

Good 4 u doin what I did with the rubber paddle and strap goin across my own butt cheeks. Am sure ur 2 Dudes now know exactly how to lick it on their sons cheeks, the correct # for the age, and intensity. Let me know how its goin with them.

Glad to hear about the star ftball player-hope he does great with violin-my middle dude is a really talented pianist. He is into cross country track, is slimer than BobJo and me, but real fast. Also does well in academics.

BobJo is really great at throwing, has a better arm than the current quaterback who is my nephew. Both Dudes are real smart academically- Lief has 3 ftball and academic scholarships , one is to Texas A&M. He is also too damn handsome and girls all over him, and he is into sex-so as his Dad and I r tryin to help him wait. But, so far, even whippings don't work. Just hope he doesn't ruin his chances-as my MD bro wants him to go into pre-med-he's so academically bright! Told his Dad he always uses a condom.

Am on duty for next 3 days, getting ready to go to the station now. Am sure the new teacher will do great-good luck in the new school yr!

RJ

Joe;

Am at the station, slow so far-just wanted to say that my 2 bros who have girls never spanked them without the Mom there! Felt that it should be a joint occasion due to the sex difference! Both had the girls bend over their knee as do the Dudes, but Moms pulled down the underpants and held down the girls-so Dad could lick their butt cheeks. Worked well 4 them, I'd let Dads of girls know to do it that way.

Had to give Jake a lickin before I left 4 work, he lied about what he did today after cross country track training, was supposed to help BobJo work on the yard-and never showed up. Played ball with his friends. Gave him the rubber paddle, over my left leg, with his jock on, and sissored his legs as I laid on the strokes. Decided to do like u . and instead of 13 plus 3 plus 1, gave him a good 25 strokes across his bare butt cheeks. Man-he cried and screamed from the fire across his behind. Made sure to give him 10 at his bottom, and then just laid it on. He got up, rubbin his red cheeks and said how sorry he was! So-as I always said, a good whippin is just what a teen Dude needs.

RJ

Dear RJ,

Good to read of your boys' athletic pursuits. Might BobJo become a quarterback as he grows into the game and the team? But he'll have the problem we see here sometimes of girls fall all over him. I hope you can lovingly teach BobJo the biblical/spiritual reasons WHY he should wait for sex until he becomes a married man. He needs reasons and spiritual support more than he needs threats or even actual corporal punishment for doing it, even no matter how hard or ugly the thrashings might be. And "protected sex" with a condom is not good enough when the issue ultimately is spiritual and moral.

I've seen more boys at school that I'd like to remember who were willing to endure their dad's paddle or belt or whatever for the sake of just going ahead with what they wanted to do. So at a point, yet another thrashing is no inhibitor or bad decisions or behavior, short of the boy sensing the deeper meanings of his thought and behavior. PRAY with your boys!!!

Thanks for your kind comment on my quasi-fathering of the boy next door. I felt horrible over the way I thrashed him and how hard he screamed from the pain, but just perhaps it might have done the job. I told him repeatedly that I would do all I could to take the place of his dad whenever he felt he needed a dad, and would he PLEASE come over to our house whenever he wanted to. Indeed, I told him I specifically was asking him to stop by at our house every day for at least the next week, and he's been good about that. He really does want to be a good kid, I think, and I'm trying to support him in every way I can, including last night going out for ice cream sundaes. He runs, and we're going to go running tomorrow for maybe four or five miles, and that's always a good time to talk "on the hoof." But I sure hope I never again need to get his butt up high, front and center over my left leg, like I did on Sunday!!

You know, I still remember how hellish the fiery pain was when our middle school principal licked ME with that rubber paddle. Man, does that thing BURN!!! I can't imagine a boy needing anything worse, and if you thrashed you middle boy today anywhere near as bad as I gave it to Jack on Sunday, your boy good it real good. Yes? I should think that 25 good, hard licks with that wretched rubber paddle gave him LOTS to cry about!! I have tended both to start and then to finish at the very bottom of a boy's behind, where it hurts especially bad.

I'd be interested to read your wife's research some day when her "book" is accepted and she can issue her research in one or more places. While I might be a bit less "flamboyant" about it than perhaps you are, I definitely wish we could paddle kids at school -- and THEN call home, so they get it that night at home as well. Not in our state, sad to say.

Lots of hugs for your boys! Lots of good times, etc., so that they can put a good thrashing into the context of strong, abundant family love. Indeed, would there be time in BobJo's life to become a church choir singer this Fall and take on some spiritual enrichment that way, as well as to learn the discipline of careful group singing? Does he play any instruments? It would be good for him to balance his "jock" thing with various kinds of aesthetic and religious focal points as well.

Plato's Republic makes the point about keeping "music" and "gymnastics" in balance; "Music" there is "things of the muses, the Greek goddesses of beauty, inspiration, etc." and "gymnastics" is his culture-conditioned parlance for "physical fitness." His point is that one's good physical fitness should serve one's intellectual/emotional/spiritual health and NOT the other way around. I see too many boys who are all-jock and nothing else, and while they CAN grow up to be good, productive citizens -- and lots do! -- yet they could be better, more widely-based citizens by doing music as well. We try to get out kids involved in music lessons during grade school years and then provide a smooth transition from grade school to middle school and to high school, so the kids don't "fall through the cracks."

It's easier to do that in a small school district like ours, and we have very little "mortality" of kids from music or from sports that start in grade school. Some boys want to move from soccer to football in middle school, but our soccer program is so good that lots of them stay with soccer, and our soccer program is a lot stronger than football. Fine.

All the best. We start school after another full week, and at this point, we are fully staffed and all curricula are in oder. I went to talk with the football team one morning, and tomorrow morning I'm going to talk with the soccer and field hockey teams. And on Friday morning I hope to go running with the cross country team, as it'll be a long slow run early in the morning before they lift late that afternoon. The kids sorta find it "interesting" if not fun when the principal goes running with them. Our best runners could kill me on the road, but beyond the two five or so, I can probably run better than most of the kids. I hope to keep that up.

All the best.

Joe Verdi