Sexual harrassment: primal or legal justice (Women only)

I found no literature. So we conducted a short highly unscientific research project :-) on the matter. Brad asked his friends whether they will be turned on by a defeat by a woman the way you describe it, that is real defeat, not horsing around. His closest friends also asked people they know. South Africa being multicultural, we also tried to obtain respondents from all racial groups and even ethnic groups amongst the “black” people. We can still not claim that the survey design was perfect. Further, I asked my girl friends if they know, or heard of, such men.

The outcome: we could not find a single one out of 17 respondents. In fact, some were quite shocked and one advised Brad to seek help from his “shrink girlfriend”. When saying the request was actually from me, he clutched his head and muttered something like “that does not bode well for her future patients”.

Some of my female friends also found it strange that I love playful domination, though some do it occasionally. I too had to endure an insult: but you are so bloody butch anyway….!

So it may be something in some parts of the world. I cannot foresee this can happen in say Muslim countries. I cannot imagine how any person of any sex can enjoy defeat. Leave alone men with the “balls” hormones and social conditioning. It is just a no no. Maybe I should make this my topic for my masters degree thesis I need to become a clinical psychologist.

psygen,

First of all, thank you for getting back to me. When one surfs the internet, one winds up in unsought places. I developed an interest in the implications of women in the U.S. graduating from college about 3 for every 2 men. That led, among other things, considerations of "the coming American Matriarchy" and that to feminism and female supremacy and the latter to BDSM stuff. Somewhere along the way I hit this poll in misterpoll.com. In your first comment you showed an interest in male arousal and seemed to associate it solely with male victory.

Re your first reply to me: (1) I know that many people say that "in theory" sociology reduces to psychology, which reduces to biology, which reduces to chemistry, which reduces to physics. By "reduces to" I mean "is explained by the principles of." However, I am not so sure about this reductionism. I think that at higher orders of complexity explanation might only be within the principles of that complexity. This might be because higher orders of complexity create non-reducible higher order principles. Or, it might be because we do not and never will understand all the principles of nature. In any case, I do not thnk the phenomena of men becoming aroused when defeated by women can be explained by junk food or being overweight. This, of course, is just a hunch. There is the possiblity, too, that even if these factors were causative, they might not fully explain the phenoma at issue. In the final analysis, the issue is an empirical one that can only be settled by empirical means such as correlating types of food consumed, presence of hormones, or Body Mass Index with the male feelings of submission that I described and are in evidence in the comments in the likelike.com poll I cited . There are plenty of other polls there and on misterpoll.com that contain the same kind of comments. Also, one can find similar comments on youtube.com (search on "mixed wrestling," girls beat boys," and the like. More disturbing, search on "ballbusting" where guys say that they want girls to kick them in the balls.) In the absence of a consensus by the scientific community on these matters, all else is speculation.

(2) You mentioned maschocism. I refreshed my understanding of that on Wikipedia.com (not exactly the most authoritative source but not to be discounted either and certainly readily available and quick). I am not sure that males becoming aroused by being bested by women (or even thinking about it or hearing about it) constitutes a case of mascochism. Certainly, it seems related. But I am not sure that the men being aroused actively seek it or even really enjoy it. All we have here is self-reporting by a very few men and that is not very reliable. Certainly, not enough is known from that source to make a conclusion.

(3) I think that your "play" with Brad does not explain much, since it occurs within a context in which both of you surely have no genuine feelings of defeat or really being dominated. Many women like the "woman on top" positiion because they like the feeling of control and many men enjoy letting their women enjoying themselves. It is not real love if you do not desire the happiness of the person you love. Something tells me that his arousal largely stems from the sight of you nude, near him, and even in physical contact with him, although other factors might enhance or speed that arousal.

(4) It does not surprise me that you were not able to find anything on this issue. Compared to the natural sciences, I think that the behaviourial and social sciences are primitive. Sorry about that. :-} Of course, the objects studied in the natural sciences do not have the free will and imagination of humans. That makes the establishing a consensus on scientific "laws" more difficutlt. Say I want to know how fast an object falls where air friction is negligible. I just look up the formula. But it is not just laws but consensus on facts that are hard to come by in the social sciences.

(5) My hunch is that few men are aroused by "defeat" of male by female. I base my hunch on (a) the small number of people commenting on likelike.com, misterpoll.com, and youtube.com and self-reporting of arousal by "defeat" of male by female, (b) the scant mention of the phenomena in mass media, and of course (c) your not coming up with anything.

If interested, you might check out the Wikipedia article on "Female Submission" and see what you make of it. According to it, "A 1995 study indicates that 89% of heterosexual females who are active in BDSM expressed a preference for a submissive-recipient role in sexual bondage, suggesting also a preference for a dominant male, and 71% of heterosexual males preferred a dominant-initiator role."

CuriousXYZ, my time is limited, so I will study your interesting posting and reply la8er. Violres, but the interactions you describe are nothing but criminal 2 me!!! Did you do anything to help the victims, or were you in no position, like being too small in relation to the perpetrators?

Curious,

Look for femdom_media@yahoogroups.com. This may interest you.

Yes, there is an argument that some of these actions my constitute assault. And yes, I was in no position to help, being even younger and weaker then the victims in all the pre-adult cases. I was a friend of the 15 year old boy in the 23 on 15 case. The other guy was a distant relative of the friend and working nearby the school. It was a small town and he passed through the schoolgrounds to take lunch. We often met. That day he just all of a sudden grabbed my friend. In fact, all of the cases were marked by a "suddenness" or impulsiveness. He at least when standing up apologized and said "I don't know why I did it." My friend was depressed so I never brought it up again. He for sure could make a case for assault. In the cases on the 17year old I was in the position to intervene, but as said it was too shortlived. The pubertal cases were sometimes broken up by senior students, but the perpetrators never punished. There was this thing "to be a man you have to pass through it". Again, where is the line drawn? Boys horsing may bring them up for manhood (I know you will disagree Psycjen). A weak boy half the age and weight of another, being bullied for several minutes is not correct. Official combat sports is in my view the answer - regulated. I assume as karateka you will agree on this!