User: psycjen

CuriousXYZ, I am still struggling to find time to reply, hope to do so soon.

CuriousXYZ,

I am studying your links and preparing a reply. This is heavy stuff and more sociology than shrink stuff but I will reply to the best of my ability. In the meantime, here is a link to another poll site: http://surveycentral.org/. It is on a higher level than Likelike, more like Misterpoll, shortcomings despite. I know the Department (of Psychology) here uses Surveymonkey, but the results are not open to the world.

BTW, I am travelling from Tuesday 26 April to Friday and then again from Monday to Thursday the week thereafter. So I am afraid my reply will not be ready before by the middle of May. Stay tuned here.

Hi CurioiusXYZ

"I developed an interest in the implications of women in the U.S. graduating from college about 3 for every 2 men."

In the veterinary school of the University of Pretoria, it is said that 75% of present graduates are now women while before they were rare. Female medical students are also on the rise at the same university, by we have no stats.

"That led, among other things, considerations of "the coming American Matriarchy" and that to feminism and female supremacy and the latter to BDSM stuff. Somewhere along the way I hit this poll in misterpoll.com. In your first comment you showed an interest in male arousal and seemed to associate it solely with male victory."

You take it quite wide heh? I on first thought would not have linked feminism with BDSM but it is possible. I agree that not only males are victorious and enjoy it, it can be fem on fem and fem on male too.

"Re your first reply to me: (1) I know that many people say that "in theory" sociology reduces to psychology, which reduces to biology, which reduces to chemistry, which reduces to physics." etc etc

Interesting, but speaking of complexity, too complex for a 23 y old blonde. I have heard of the theory that everything is in fact energy. Matter is just very dense energy vibrating at a certain frequency or something. If so, one can take that right up from physics via the rapidly evolving field of molecular chemistry through molecular biology right up to complex social interactions. That the environment influences one's psyche and can make on sick, is true. E.g our topic of defeat. Repeated defeats lead to depression, but then it can be treated chemically!

"In any case, I do not thnk the phenomena of men becoming aroused when defeated by women can be explained by junk food or being overweight. This, of course, is just a hunch. There is the possiblity, too, that even if these factors were causative, they might not fully explain the phenoma at issue. In the final analysis, the issue is an empirical one that can only be settled by empirical means such as correlating types of food consumed, presence of hormones, or Body Mass Index with the male feelings of submission that I described and are in evidence in the comments in the likelike.com poll I cited . There are plenty of other polls there and on misterpoll.com that contain the same kind of comments. Also, one can find similar comments on youtube.com (search on "mixed wrestling," girls beat boys," and the like. More disturbing, search on "ballbusting" where guys say that they want girls to kick them in the balls.) In the absence of a consensus by the scientific community on these matters, all else is speculation."

I browsed a little bit. I too landed up by coincidence on this site and thanks for the link to likelike. If there was just more time! Well, yes, this should be researched scientifically. Some of the polls are disturbing but as we discussed, it is not scientific. Many of the pollsters may just be fantasizing and so their respondents. In real life we do not see that often, but of course this will not happen in the open. Real baddies land up in jail. To put toghether a scientific study will be difficult.

"(2) You mentioned maschocism. I refreshed my understanding of that on Wikipedia.com (not exactly the most authoritative source but not to be discounted either and certainly readily available and quick). I am not sure that males becoming aroused by being bested by women (or even thinking about it or hearing about it) constitutes a case of mascochism. Certainly, it seems related. But I am not sure that the men being aroused actively seek it or even really enjoy it. All we have here is self-reporting by a very few men and that is not very reliable. Certainly, not enough is known from that source to make a conclusion."

"Self-defeating personality disorder" as masochism is properly called, is still baffling to me as person with a strong personality, and not well understood in general. Most indicators are that it is learned bahaviour. Learned as in active situations, often a result of bullying, extreme discipline etc. Yet, that was how I grew up. My parents were very strict but they emphasized self-discipline, for which I am thankful. Also, while I had to obey them, they encouraged assertiveness towards other people.

"(3) I think that your "play" with Brad does not explain much, since it occurs within a context in which both of you surely have no genuine feelings of defeat or really being dominated." etc etc

Yes, true.

"(4) It does not surprise me that you were not able to find anything on this issue. Compared to the natural sciences, I think that the behaviourial and social sciences are primitive. Sorry about that. :-} Of course, the objects studied in the natural sciences do not have the free will and imagination of humans. That makes the establishing a consensus on scientific "laws" more difficutlt. Say I want to know how fast an object falls where air friction is negligible. I just look up the formula. But it is not just laws but consensus on facts that are hard to come by in the social sciences."

Social sciences primitive? Were you nearby, you would have made a good target for karate practice!!! True, social sciences are not exact, but for the reasons you mention. Humans are not predictive as stones.

"(5) My hunch is that few men are aroused by "defeat" of male by female. I base my hunch on (a) the small number of people commenting on likelike.com, misterpoll.com, and youtube.com and self-reporting of arousal by "defeat" of male by female, (b) the scant mention of the phenomena in mass media, and of course (c) your not coming up with anything."

I hope so. Yet, this will keep me in a job! I should when I am registered as a clinical psycologist, at night and masked go around and assault males and leave my business card with them to invite them for treatment! Now is that not psycho, huh? :-)

"If interested, you might check out the Wikipedia article on "Female Submission" and see what you make of it. According to it, "A 1995 study indicates that 89% of heterosexual females who are active in BDSM expressed a preference for a submissive-recipient role in sexual bondage, suggesting also a preference for a dominant male, and 71% of heterosexual males preferred a dominant-initiator role." "

Now that illustration of a naked female kneeling in front of a male enraged the hell out of me!!!! This warrant another discussion for another day. I know I must try to see it in an objective way. Sorry for the delays between replies. But let us continue this discussion for a while - it is very interesting.

CuriousXYZ, my time is limited, so I will study your interesting posting and reply la8er. Violres, but the interactions you describe are nothing but criminal 2 me!!! Did you do anything to help the victims, or were you in no position, like being too small in relation to the perpetrators?

I found no literature. So we conducted a short highly unscientific research project :-) on the matter. Brad asked his friends whether they will be turned on by a defeat by a woman the way you describe it, that is real defeat, not horsing around. His closest friends also asked people they know. South Africa being multicultural, we also tried to obtain respondents from all racial groups and even ethnic groups amongst the “black” people. We can still not claim that the survey design was perfect. Further, I asked my girl friends if they know, or heard of, such men.

The outcome: we could not find a single one out of 17 respondents. In fact, some were quite shocked and one advised Brad to seek help from his “shrink girlfriend”. When saying the request was actually from me, he clutched his head and muttered something like “that does not bode well for her future patients”.

Some of my female friends also found it strange that I love playful domination, though some do it occasionally. I too had to endure an insult: but you are so bloody butch anyway….!

So it may be something in some parts of the world. I cannot foresee this can happen in say Muslim countries. I cannot imagine how any person of any sex can enjoy defeat. Leave alone men with the “balls” hormones and social conditioning. It is just a no no. Maybe I should make this my topic for my masters degree thesis I need to become a clinical psychologist.