User: joe

1. You said that Bert Thompson wrote an article that says NASA found the lost day.

Apparently you just read the title and not the article. The article states that this story is a myth (i.e. it agrees with you.) But you judged before investigation.

1. You asked which versions of the Bible I use. If you had looked before you wrote your message, you would have seen a message left by me listing several. You can add to this list KJV, Revised Standard, American standard, etc. (I have 16 versions I use) I see you have only listed one.

2. You say that my Hebrew definitions are wrong, but you say what you think a Hebrew word means quite often. I have checked Dictionaries and you have never mentioned checking a Hebrew Lexicon or Dictionary. Are you just taking someone's word for these definitions or are you making it up as you go along. You asked for the web-site for an on-line dictionary, but if I gave you one you probably would say I chose a biased one (characteristic of past history, without prior examination). So do like I did, use a search engine.

The quotes I gave for Psalm 90:6 are not exact. Here are some exact quotes to show how various versions of the Bible have this verse recorded:

"by evening..." (New International Version, and New Living Translation)

"Toward evening..." (New American Standard Version)

"At evening it is cut down and hath withered." (Youngs Literal Translation"

Also, the Hebrew word is "Shaneh" for "year" in the verses in Leviticus 25 where the commandment for the Sabbitical Year is given. This word is always plural.

"Yom", the word used for the days of creation, can be singular or plural. When accompanied by a number, in non-prophetic scripture, it always refers to literal days. If it is not accompanied by a number it could be a day or a number of days, depending on the context. Where Genesis 2:4 says "in the 'Yom' that the Lord made the Earth and the Heavens", we would need to look at the context. In the context we see the creation was done in six numbered days. Therefore "yom" in this verse is not just one day and there is no contradiction between this verse and Genesis 1:1 thru 2:3.

========== In Reply To ========== Quote: this is not a valid case, How much would you need to increase power before this could be accomplished?

It is VERY valid! You just don't wish to answer because you know what the correct answer. Therefore, you avoid it.

Quote: Even an infinate increase in power could not! The contradiction is in the question. In essance it asks, "How much do you need to increase power until you are not powerful enough?"

Answer the question, please.

ANSWER: God is not stronger than God and God is not weaker than God!

I agree with your explanation of the number 1000. I wish I had explained it so elequently when I had discussed simular matters (such as the meaning of Revalation 20) with others in the past. But, notice, nowhere in Genesis 1 and 2 is the number 1000 or 6000 used.

Yes it does.

In Genesis 1, there are six days of creation. Six times one thousand is six-thousand, correct me if I'm wrong. And one times one thousand is still one thousand.

You have assumed that the number 1000 is there, but it is not. Your assumption is wrong, therefore, six-times a wrong assumption is still wrong!

Quote: Also, Genesis 1 gives a chronological overview of the creation, but Genesis 2 does not. Nowhere in Genesis 2 does it say everything was created in one day.

Yes it does. "In THE day YHWH Created..."

notice what I said before about "yom" used in conjunction with a number. This verse is like today if an old man said, "Back in MY DAY", he would not necessarily mean one day. But if he specified he did something and it took him six days, we would know exactly how long he was talking about.

Quote: Genesis 2 simply reviews the creation and man's relationship to God and the rest of creation.

Correct. I shows the relationships between YHWH, humanity, and the rest of Creation.

Note before commenting on what is said below in reference to its content It seems that you did a "cut and paste" job. First of all, if you did, you know that you should have given due credit and sited the author (if known) and title (and if somewhere on the web, the address). If not, what are your sources?

Several resources, including: The Bible (several Translations), Years of study, Eric Lyon; MA, Bert Thompson; PhD, Several on-line Hebrew dictionaries (with Biblical cross-references), Lectures on the subject I have attended, Articles I have read too numerous to list, web-sites I have already referenced, et al.

Quote: Genesis 1 also defines a "day" as "evening and morning". In every passage in the Old Testament(and there are several) where the terms "evening" and "morning" are used in conjunction with "yom",it means a literal day.

You forget that isn't until the third "day" that Elohim made the "two great lights," which were specifically used to tell time with.

In addition, a star's light must travel the distance between itself and our planet before its light can show. It is impossible for such light to suddently show. This have been proven with our own star, the sun. When we see it in the sky, it isn't where it really should be, due to the DELAY. One day isn't long enough for a star's light besides our sun's light to reach the Earth.

You assume that from creation until now the light traveld the entire distance. Did God create the light at the star and it had to travel from there to here, or did God put a steady stream of energy between the two points?

Lastly, which is the real kicker, don't forget that the Hebrew "ereb" can also mean "ending of the day," and "boqer," "beginning of the day" or even "dawning." Certainly you've heard of the expression "dawning of a new age"?

So you say that the first "eon" ended before it began? Genisis says evening and morning in that order, the Hebrew way of defining a "day"

In addition, read Psalm 90. Verse 4 is quite clear, saying "For a thousand years in your sight are like yesterday when it is past, or like a watch in the night." There is 1,000. Countless.

It does not say a day IS a thousand years. It says a thousand years are LIKE a day. (By the way this goes backwards to prove your point. Instead of streching a day into 1000 years, this shrinks 1000 years into one day! I think you ment to use 2 Peter 3:8, but that wouldn't help either. 2 Peter says it both ways (day like years & years like day) and sitll uses that word "LIKE" (or "as" depending on version). The point: God can do more in one day than we can do in countless years! Thanks for proving this point with scripture!

Also, verse 5b-6: "like grass that is renewed in the morning; in the morning, it flurishes and is renewed; in the evening, it fades and withers." Grass doesn't fade and wither just because it is night outside. And since this passage uses the same words as in Genesis 1, it is CLEAR that "eons" is indeed the best translation.

If you did a little research, you would know that other translations say "by the evening" or "in the afternoon". Also it is obvious you do not live in warmer regions of the country. Quite often on hot summer days, grasses are green in the morning and during the day the hot dry sun takes it's toll and if you go out and look at it in the evening, it is wilted and/or scorched. But the next morning, the dew refreshes it.

Quote: If "yom" is "Eon", there is a problem with consistency in many passages. Example, Exodus 20 where the ten commandments say "Remember the Sabbath Day ("yom")". It says because God created the heavens and the earth in six days ("yom") and on the seventh "yom" He rested. To translate this consistantly as "Eon", it would say to remember the seventh Eon and to do no work during the seventh Eon. (Can you immagine a whole Eon with no work?).

Ever heard of the Sabbatical Year? Turn to Leviticus 25:1-7. It is an interesting occurrance in Hebrew culture and celebration. For six years a person can work the land, but every seventh, the land may not be worked. This is directly related to Genesis 1, and shows that a "day" isn't always a literal 24-hours.

No it doesn't! It shows the opposite. When the Bible talks about the Sabatical YEAR, it uses a different word for "year" than the one used for "day". In Exodus 20, The word for sabbath "day" is the exact same word used for the "days" of creation. Clearly a year is a year, and a day is a day. The Sabbath day is clearly a day of the week (ask any Jew) and the same word is used in the same sentance to refer to numbered days of creation.

========== In Reply To ========== Quote: God said it and BANG it happened!

After your huge fuss about me not providing evidence, I find this to be rather...odd.

Reply: Thank you for reminding me. See my reply at the end of this page.

God is all powerful!

Perhaps...can YHWH create a rock that He Himself cannot carry?

this is not a valid case, How much would you need to increase power before this could be accomplished? Even an infinate increase in power could not! The contradiction is in the question. In essance it asks, "How much do you need to increase power until you are not powerful enough?"

Quote: Being ALL POWERFUL, (i.e. being God) He is/was able to create the universe in days.

According to the Hebrew, it took 6,000 years for YHWH to Create the multiuniverse. Then, He spent 1,000 resting.

1. 1,000 is an important number to the Hebrew philosophy and theology. When used, it is meant to mean a "tremendous number" or "countless."
2. Note how Genesis 1 has a six-day (eon) Creation but Genesis 2 has a one-day (eon) Creation. There are other discrepencies as well. Please tell me why this is?

I agree with your explanation of the number 1000. I wish I had explained it so elequently when I had discussed simular matters (such as the meaning of Revalation 20) with others in the past. But, notice, nowhere in Genesis 1 and 2 is the number 1000 or 6000 used. Also, Genesis 1 gives a chronological overview of the creation, but Genesis 2 does not. Nowhere in Genesis 2 does it say everything was created in one day. Genesis 2 simply reviews the creation and man's relationship to God and the rest of creation.

Day or Eon?

The Hebrew word "yom" (or some spell it "yowm") was translated as day.

When "yom" is used in non-prophetic scripture (as in Genesis 1) in conjunction with a number, it always means a literal day.

If "yom" means "Eon", then what is the meaning of "Year" in this chapter?

And, what do you do with the term "night"?

Genesis 1 also defines a "day" as "evening and morning". In every passage in the Old Testament(and there are several) where the terms "evening" and "morning" are used in conjunction with "yom",it means a literal day.

If "yom" is "Eon", there is a problem with consistency in many passages. Example, Exodus 20 where the ten commandments say "Remember the Sabbath Day ("yom")". It says because God created the heavens and the earth in six days ("yom") and on the seventh "yom" He rested. To translate this consistantly as "Eon", it would say to remember the seventh Eon and to do no work during the seventh Eon. (Can you immagine a whole Eon with no work?)

I have mentioned that the plants were created on Day 3, and I asked how they survived until the sun was created on day 4. Your response about the light from the "Big Bang" could have kept them alive does not address how this violent explosion maintained the correct balance of light and warmth for such a long time when left to only natural forces. If God was powerful enough to control this amount of energy for that long, why is he not powerful enough to create the universe in days?

Also, many plants rely on insects, birds, or other animals to have pollination. How did these survive the millions or billions of years until Eon 5 and 6?

Why does the Earth look so old? Quite often things created by miracles look older than they actually are. When Jesus broke the bread to feed the 5000, he created new bread instantly. This bread, however, looked and tasted like bread someone would have had to work for hours (or days if you consider the primitive conditions) gathering the ingredients, grinding the wheat, mixing, building a fire, etc., but it was newly made. One second after Adam was formed, he would have been only one second old, but he was in a mature form. He had a real age and an apparent age.

There is nothing in Genesis 1 & 2 that suggests that a "day" is anything more.

God said it and BANG it happened!

God is all powerful!

Being ALL POWERFUL, (i.e. being God) He is/was able to create the universe in days.