Are you going to heaven or hell?

Gratezenad,

Thank you for your reply. There is actually so much evidence proving the bible, I couldn't list it all here. I'd be glad to send some to an email address if you'd like.

In the bible, the prophecies all come true, archeology constantly confirms the scriptures, geology is just screaming with proof (especially of Noah's flood), and it is full of scientific information written long before man "discovered" things.

As for these other books, there are problems. Take for example the Qur'an. A small, flimsy book written by one man, it is filled with serious mistakes and errors. (see http://www.carm.org/cut/islam.htm for some examples).

And consider this. We all sin, right? I hope we can agree on that. Well, listen to this: Jesus Christ was the only one to ever claim He had the power to forgive sin. That means if you ever hope to have your sin forgiven and to get to heaven, by default Jesus is literally your only option. No other leader claimed he could forgive sin. Furthermore, all other religions are works based in some manner, meaning you have to do or not do certain things to get to heaven. Jesus doesn't require any such thing but repentance and faith.

The bible was written under difficult conditions: A controversial subject (religion) written by 40 authors, from different walks of life (fishermen to kings), written over a period of 1,500 years, on three different continents, in three different languages. Now if the bible were not the word of God, those people under those conditions couldn't have made a book that so perfectly harmonizes from cover to cover. It would have been all messed up. You couldn't pull that stunt with even ten people today.

But you don't have to demand proof. It's good to research, but be warned God wants you to have faith like a child. The more intellectual you are about it, the more you will be missing the point. All He asks is for you to repent (turn away from your sins) and trust in Jesus to pay for your sins and save you from hell. That's it.

God has done an amazing thing, in that He has revealed His word, His truth, to us who are not proud and stuck on relying upon our intellect. For example, the bible says "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." Matthew 11:25. It's the "foolish" who hear and do His word. Besides, if you rely on proof only, you can't have faith, because if you had proof it wouldn't be faith then.

Bottom line, you know God exists by seeing His creation. You know the Law, for it is written on your heart. (It's called your conscious - literally meaning "with knowledge"). If you've lied, stolen, blasphemed, lusted, dishonored your parents, etc., you will be guilty before God on Judgment Day. All He asks if for you to repent and trust Jesus to save you. And just for the record, Jesus is God in the flesh, and He rose from the dead after being crucified. If you believe these things, it will be all the easier to turn to Him and repent. I say that just so you know Who and what you are dealing with, that you may believe and get right with God, before it's too late. Keep in mind, the next time your head hits the pillow, it could be the one in your casket. Don't wait. It's a matter of prayer, just hit your knees and pray with repentance and faith.

And consider this. We all sin, right? I hope we can agree on that. Well, listen to this: Jesus Christ was the only one to ever claim He had the power to forgive sin. That means if you ever hope to have your sin forgiven and to get to heaven, by default Jesus is literally your only option. No other leader claimed he could forgive sin. Furthermore, all other religions are works based in some manner, meaning you have to do or not do certain things to get to heaven. Jesus doesn't require any such thing but repentance and faith.

Its right because the person Christianity calls the messaih claims he can forgive sin and its the easy way out and anyone can be forgiven? sounds like god wants mass murders running around heaven. Judaism does not actually require you to do anything. Everyone is born with an equal share of heaven, then if you do something good you have more of a right, something bad you have less of a right. Sounds like god just wanted us to leave the world a little better than we found it. But no, for some reason according to you that isn't enough, you have to worship god. And no, that's not a requirment to get in according to Judaism.

The bible was written under difficult conditions: A controversial subject (religion) written by 40 authors, from different walks of life (fishermen to kings), written over a period of 1,500 years, on three different continents, in three different languages. Now if the bible were not the word of God, those people under those conditions couldn't have made a book that so perfectly harmonizes from cover to cover. It would have been all messed up. You couldn't pull that stunt with even ten people today

We have been over this. It has been edited alot, what's your point? No other book has a group of people who's entire careers as the most powerful men in the world on the line.

But you don't have to demand proof. It's good to research, but be warned God wants you to have faith like a child. The more intellectual you are about it, the more you will be missing the point. All He asks is for you to repent (turn away from your sins) and trust in Jesus to pay for your sins and save you from hell. That's it.

Sounds like more than one religion I know. Judaism. Just honestly repent (which requires more than saying "I repent", a common mistake) and you will be accepted in heaven. No trusting.

I don't see god or proof because I see his creation. I see evolution and chance and energy and matter and nothing supernaturaul. I may not know where I have come from. I can make a good guess with facts to back me. That doesn't matter though. Science means nothing if proof means nothing. You don't do everything on faith. Why should I accept a god of faith? Especially when i have been told by the origins of the religion that I would be tested. The prophecies don't line up. God can't expect a man to take another man's word that a book is the word of God. Which is why it shouldn't be a requirement to have to worship god.

Also, what is all this about proof of scriptures? Events happened which happened in the Torah. I'd like you to list some of this proof of the scriptures.

One last thing: Christianity breaks the ten commandments (let alone the 625 commandments!). YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD OR IDOLS BEFORE ME - paraphrased. May I ask why you create idols of Jesus? You just created and worshiped an idol, oopsie. There is also the part about no graven images.

Dr. Smart,

Good to hear from you again. Sorry about the long absence. Let's pick back up.

"Its right because the person Christianity calls the messaih claims he can forgive sin and its the easy way out and anyone can be forgiven? sounds like god wants mass murders running around heaven." I'm glad you brought this up, because there is any easy answer that needs to be brought out into the open. There won't be mass murderers or any sinners at all in heaven. Those who've repented and trust Jesus for salvation have had their sins removed from them. Jesus Christ took all of our sin and the punishment due to us upon Himself. In other words, He literally removed all sin from us and took it as His own, as if He committed our sins. So if a mass murderer repents and trusts Jesus, he will not have sin in heaven, it's been removed by Christ. But for those who don't repent and trust Him, they die in their sins and receive justice on Judgment Day, some worse than others. (Mark 6:11)

I never said that worship of God is required for salvation. I'm not sure where you thought I said that. There are only two requirements, those of repentance and trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

What is my point on the conditions under which the bible was written? I went over that to respond to Gratezenad, but you can't deny that those conditions were impossible. My point is that every page of the bible is divine, the very word of God, and can be trusted.

If you don't trust in Jesus, and rely on repentance alone, you will die in your sins and end up in hell. Repentance does not pay for sin. That would be like telling a judge you are sorry for committing a crime, and expecting to be let off the hook with no justice done. God will see that justice is done, payment for sin is required. Justice will fall upon you on Judgment Day, no matter how sorry you are, or you must find a substitute to take your place. Christ took your punishment for you, if you will simply repent and trust Him.

And as a matter of fact, you do see proof of God when you see His creation: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

As for evolution, the book of Genesis clearly states we were created. Here is a quote to think about: "If every creature "evolved" with no Creator, there are numerous problems. Take for instance the first bird. Was it male or female? Let's say it was a male. How did it produce offspring without a mate? If a female evolved, why did it evolve with differing reproductive organs? Did it evolve by chance, or did it evolve because it knew that it was needed by the male of the species? How did it know what needed to be evolved if it's brain hadn't yet evolved? Did the bird breathe? Did it breathe before it evolved lungs? How did it do this? Why did it evolve lungs if it was happily surviving without them? Did the bird have a mouth? How did it eat before it had evolved a mouth? Where did the mouth send the food before a stomach evolved? How did the bird have energy if it didn't eat (because it didn't yet have a mouth)? How did the bird see what there was to eat before it's eyes evolved? Evolution is intellectual suicide. It is an embarrassment." -Ray Comfort

About proof, I can't stress enough that if you chase after proof there is a chance you'll miss out. God wants faith. If you defy Him demand proof, you are going against His will. I have some files that help in the area of proof, such as information about the Dead Sea Scrolls that prove the bible hasn't been edited or changed. Also, read Micah 5:2. It so specifically states where Jesus will come from as came to pass. As I told the other guy, I'd love to send you what little data I've gathered for proof, but it's too much for here. I can email it or mail it, either way if you really want to know. But you don't need it. You just need faith.

As for creating idols of Jesus, I don't bow to any pictures or statues of Him. Those of us who do have pictures or figures of Jesus don't worship them, they are a reminder of the One we love. And keeping the First Commandment means to have no other Gods, and Christ being God is OK to worship. So let me assure you I worship Jesus, and not any "idol" of Him.

I'm glad you brought this up, because there is any easy answer that needs to be brought out into the open. There won't be mass murderers or any sinners at all in heaven. Those who've repented and trust Jesus for salvation have had their sins removed from them. Jesus Christ took all of our sin and the punishment due to us upon Himself. In other words, He literally removed all sin from us and took it as His own, as if He committed our sins. So if a mass murderer repents and trusts Jesus, he will not have sin in heaven, it's been removed by Christ. But for those who don't repent and trust Him, they die in their sins and receive justice on Judgment Day, some worse than others.

So all I have to do is say "I trust Jesus, forgive me". Not a good system.

I never said that worship of God is required for salvation. I'm not sure where you thought I said that. There are only two requirements, those of repentance and trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

So you have to accept that there is a G-d and that it it Jesus. Bad system. As I said, no belief in G-d is required for other religions (Judaism), why is it required for this one.

What is my point on the conditions under which the bible was written? I went over that to respond to Gratezenad, but you can't deny that those conditions were impossible. My point is that every page of the bible is divine, the very word of God, and can be trusted.

Once you put a book through a compiler you can't determine if its conditions were truly impossible because if 1/2 of everyone submitted a gospel then the compiler (the Church) just picks what fit it best.

If you don't trust in Jesus, and rely on repentance alone, you will die in your sins and end up in hell. Repentance does not pay for sin. That would be like telling a judge you are sorry for committing a crime, and expecting to be let off the hook with no justice done. God will see that justice is done, payment for sin is required. Justice will fall upon you on Judgment Day, no matter how sorry you are, or you must find a substitute to take your place. Christ took your punishment for you, if you will simply repent and trust Him.

According to you all I have to do is say "I am sorry and I trust you Judge, please forgive my acts of genocide" and you get right off. Repenting is not saying "I am sorry", which is what you define it as. It is changing your actions because of your sorrow. "I am sorry I robbed someone. I will donate all my money to charity and save peoples lives from now on". (not that extreme, but you get the point) Of course, this action must be taken before death.

And as a matter of fact, you do see proof of God when you see His creation: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

This argument must be thrown out because we are arguing its validity along with the validity of Christianity and the bible therefore any argument relying purely on a quote from the bible as proof does not work.

As for evolution, the book of Genesis clearly states we were created. Here is a quote to think about: "If every creature "evolved" with no Creator, there are numerous problems. Take for instance the first bird. Was it male or female? Let's say it was a male. How did it produce offspring without a mate? If a female evolved, why did it evolve with differing reproductive organs? Did it evolve by chance, or did it evolve because it knew that it was needed by the male of the species? How did it know what needed to be evolved if it's brain hadn't yet evolved? Did the bird breathe? Did it breathe before it evolved lungs? How did it do this? Why did it evolve lungs if it was happily surviving without them? Did the bird have a mouth? How did it eat before it had evolved a mouth? Where did the mouth send the food before a stomach evolved? How did the bird have energy if it didn't eat (because it didn't yet have a mouth)? How did the bird see what there was to eat before it's eyes evolved? Evolution is intellectual suicide. It is an embarrassment." -Ray Comfort

You fail to see how evolution works if you trust this quote. The first bird did not just appear one day. Slowly a group of predecesors migrated to a high altitude area (this is hypothetical) and their bodies began to lose weight. Now since their predators had eyes and such (and yes, eyes, mouths, and stomachs came quite early so don't worry about them. Before the eyes there were eye spots or the animal or thing was blind and evolved differently. Before stomachs the individual cells did the digestion. Before mouths single celled organisms absorbed their food much as they do today). SO the mutation for a gene which will eventually turn into the wing gene/series or whatever becomes part of the stronger animals. They slowly developed the wings, starting out as protrusions with skin to allow slower falls. They were all interbreed able at this time. Slowly, since gliding was advantageous the gliding creatures grew more and more developed wings and began to fly. They were no longer interbreed able with Their old species because the change was too much and because they no longer interacted with it. The remaining old species (not at high altitudes) remained the same or changed differently.

About proof, I can't stress enough that if you chase after proof there is a chance you'll miss out. God wants faith. If you defy Him demand proof, you are going against His will. I have some files that help in the area of proof, such as information about the Dead Sea Scrolls that prove the bible hasn't been edited or changed. Also, read Micah 5:2. It so specifically states where Jesus will come from as came to pass. As I told the other guy, I'd love to send you what little data I've gathered for proof, but it's too much for here. I can email it or mail it, either way if you really want to know. But you don't need it. You just need faith.

G-d warned us of false Messiahs. And Jesus was one of them. YOUR faith is weak. Jesus failed to meet the requirements for the messiah. Why should I believe in him when I can see right through him and the very basis of the prophecies warns against this?

As for creating idols of Jesus, I don't bow to any pictures or statues of Him. Those of us who do have pictures or figures of Jesus don't worship them, they are a reminder of the One we love. And keeping the First Commandment means to have no other Gods, and Christ being God is OK to worship. So let me assure you I worship Jesus, and not any "idol" of Him.

There was never an idol of G-d for Jews because G-d is shapeless. By making a picture of Jesus, by saying he became human, by calling Jesus G-d, you rob power from G-d. By saying THIS is G-d you rob power from G-d.

Dr. Smart,

"So all I have to do is say "I trust Jesus, forgive me". Not a good system." That's not a good system? Having sinned against God and being condemned to eternal hell, and being saved from that by repentance and trust in Jesus is the best news in the world. In fact, it's the biggest solution to the biggest problem of your life. A "system" can't get any better than that! Why is that not good in your eyes?

"So you have to accept that there is a G-d and that it it Jesus. Bad system. As I said, no belief in G-d is required for other religions (Judaism), why is it required for this one." Curious as to why you are now not typing out God, when before you did. And in Judaism, they very much believe in God. Just not Jesus as the Messiah. Anyhow, if you think it's a bad system to have Jesus, God in the flesh, as the only choice, then you have to take it up with Him. After all, He is the one who said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, nobody comes to the Father but through Me." So He is the one who said He's the only option. Besides, He created you, and thus would be deeply grieved and angry if you chose another "god". Can you blame Him?

"Once you put a book through a compiler you can't determine if its conditions were truly impossible because if 1/2 of everyone submitted a gospel then the compiler (the Church) just picks what fit it best." The four gospels we have were chosen and accepted much because of the fact they were written so close to the time of Jesus, and were authenticated by the church from the start. Just one good example is from Irenaeus, a bishop and important theologian of the second century, who was taught by Polycarp, a disciple of John, who verified the dating of the Gospel of Matthew to about 60-64 A.D. Some "gospels" were written much further out. And whatever the dating of any gospel, the church didn't "pick and choose", but rather recognized the fakes and had nothing to do with them.

You mentioned genocide, and just getting off on saying "I'm sorry, I trust you, forgive me". You are correct to say that repentance is more, it's turning away from sin, not just saying you're sorry. As for getting off for genocide, or whatever the case is, the punishment for that genocide, etc., has been taken out upon Jesus Christ. Think about that. He was already punished for that crime, and all others, in your place. So He didn't just "get off", justice was in fact done. He extends that offer to you, payment in full. Why not take it?

Here is a quote and your reaction: And as a matter of fact, you do see proof of God when you see His creation: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20 "This argument must be thrown out because we are arguing its validity along with the validity of Christianity and the bible therefore any argument relying purely on a quote from the bible as proof does not work." You didn't read it. It's not just a quote from the bible. It says you can see what he made. Look out of your house, and see His creation. That's rock solid proof right there, not just a quote.

Referencing birds and all the parts they have easily disproves evolution. All the parts would have to come into being at the same time in order to function. "At the same time". Sounds an awful lot like creation, no? It's called irreducible complexity, which says one part can't function without another, proving they all came into being at the same time. This works even down at the cellular level, all the way up to organs and systems. At the same time is the opposite of evolution! Besides, ever notice a complete lack of fossil evidence? The link isn't missing, the whole chain is.

Here is a problem no evolutionist can overcome. If man has been around for as long as evolutionists claim, human population would have been in the numbers of trillionsXtrillionsXtrillions, adding up to more than the number of atoms in the universe! We'd all be standing on piles of bones reaching into outer space. But alas, we only have 6 billion, far far short of what the evolutionist timeline would produce. Could it be the earth is younger, and we were created like the bible says?

And remember what your Darwin said. "To suppose that the eye, with all it's inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." Absurd indeed. Couldn't have said it better myself. He also said, "As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivable great!" Again, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

"G-d warned us of false Messiahs. And Jesus was one of them. YOUR faith is weak. Jesus failed to meet the requirements for the messiah. Why should I believe in him when I can see right through him and the very basis of the prophecies warns against this?" You say He failed to meet the requirements. Some scholars have estimated that there were over 300 Messianic prophecies, every one of which was fulfilled by Jesus. Personally, I have a chart showing 100 of them, and their fulfillment by Christ. I would say that makes Him it. I know what you will say. He didn't come and reign as king. Just wait. He's not done yet. He is coming back in power, the way you thought He would the first time around. But by then it may be too late for you.