Are you going to heaven or hell?

That's not a good system? Having sinned against God and being condemned to eternal hell, and being saved from that by repentance and trust in Jesus is the best news in the world. In fact, it's the biggest solution to the biggest problem of your life.

---What I mean is it doesn't seem like a good way to judge people.

Curious as to why you are now not typing out God, when before you did. And in Judaism, they very much believe in God. Just not Jesus as the Messiah. Anyhow, if you think it's a bad system to have Jesus, God in the flesh, as the only choice, then you have to take it up with Him. After all, He is the one who said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, nobody comes to the Father but through Me." So He is the one who said He's the only option. Besides, He created you, and thus would be deeply grieved and angry if you chose another "god". Can you blame Him?

----Jews believe in god, but according to the teachings of the torah and rabbis nonjewish people and people who dont believe in god will not go to hell automatically

The four gospels we have were chosen and accepted much because of the fact they were written so close to the time of Jesus, and were authenticated by the church from the start. Just one good example is from Irenaeus, a bishop and important theologian of the second century, who was taught by Polycarp, a disciple of John, who verified the dating of the Gospel of Matthew to about 60-64 A.D. Some "gospels" were written much further out. And whatever the dating of any gospel, the church didn't "pick and choose", but rather recognized the fakes and had nothing to do with them.

----thats called selling a product

You mentioned genocide, and just getting off on saying "I'm sorry, I trust you, forgive me". You are correct to say that repentance is more, it's turning away from sin, not just saying you're sorry. As for getting off for genocide, or whatever the case is, the punishment for that genocide, etc., has been taken out upon Jesus Christ. Think about that. He was already punished for that crime, and all others, in your place. So He didn't just "get off", justice was in fact done. He extends that offer to you, payment in full. Why not take it?

-----Its not fair. The genocidal maniac gets into heaven but the paramedic who saves lives every day and never means to do anyone harm doesnt.

You didn't read it. It's not just a quote from the bible. It says you can see what he made. Look out of your house, and see His creation. That's rock solid proof right there, not just a quote.

------I'm looking...I'm looking...I'm...not seeing god's creation. nope nothing. just random chance if anything.

Referencing birds and all the parts they have easily disproves evolution. All the parts would have to come into being at the same time in order to function. "At the same time". Sounds an awful lot like creation, no? It's called irreducible complexity, which says one part can't function without another, proving they all came into being at the same time. This works even down at the cellular level, all the way up to organs and systems. At the same time is the opposite of evolution! Besides, ever notice a complete lack of fossil evidence? The link isn't missing, the whole chain is

----They didnt come into existence "at the same time". take a single celled organism, the earliest simplest life. it floats along and absorbs food. no organs, no nothing. What could possible benifit this creature? everything. pseudopod to help it move propel along and try to absorb more food. then what can help it next? eye spots to it can see where it is going. Next maybe a mouth so it just doesnt take in everything and it can choose when to take in things and can control what comes in and out of its body. Boom, becomes multicellular and has the genetics for fins and eyes and a mouth and waste system. While more work will happen while evolving you have ground work. This is crude at best. Fossil record non-existant? Ya right! we know some things died at certain points in time and other things came into existance, how can you possible debate this?

Here is a problem no evolutionist can overcome. If man has been around for as long as evolutionists claim, human population would have been in the numbers of trillionsXtrillionsXtrillions, adding up to more than the number of atoms in the universe! We'd all be standing on piles of bones reaching into outer space. But alas, we only have 6 billion, far far short of what the evolutionist timeline would produce. Could it be the earth is younger, and we were created like the bible says?

----Man hasn't alsways been dominant in the world, other things have threatened us. Also, great calamities have befallen us, I believ the bible even has a few in it. A great flood, rain of fire on the twin cities of evil in the middle east. These are all based on real events. Plus man has been learning to adapt to itself as well as nature. War is another problem that was around.

And remember what your Darwin said. "To suppose that the eye, with all it's inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." Absurd indeed. Couldn't have said it better myself. He also said, "As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivable great!" Again, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

----To the first quote: chaos theory. Chaos can take the form of order. That is a part at least. So, this has several applications to our arguement:

1. Our eye really has no order to it, just an illusion of order.

2. Genetics has no order, just an illusion

3. Entropy-see chaos theory To the second one: Not everything fossilizes, especially if the time period wasn't right. Also, everything is a transition state. We are one right now.

You say He failed to meet the requirements. Some scholars have estimated that there were over 300 Messianic prophecies, every one of which was fulfilled by Jesus. Personally, I have a chart showing 100 of them, and their fulfillment by Christ. I would say that makes Him it. I know what you will say. He didn't come and reign as king. Just wait. He's not done yet. He is coming back in power, the way you thought He would the first time around. But by then it may be too late for you.

Mesiah=mortal. If mortal=dead then mortal= stay dead. Jesus <> stay dead therefore jesus <> mortal therefore jesus <> mesiah.<> means does not =.

Dr. Smart,

In response to your last message, I will quote myself and your responses are in brackets.

"And whatever the dating of any gospel, the church didn't "pick and choose", but rather recognized the fakes and had nothing to do with them." [thats called selling a product] Eliminating fake documents and only keeping those speaking truth isn't selling a product. Those who were alive at the time of Christ and those following knew which documents were fake and didn't allow them to be included with the real thing. It's a matter of maintaining truth, not selling something.

[Its not fair. The genocidal maniac gets into heaven but the paramedic who saves lives every day and never means to do anyone harm doesnt.] Keep in mind, that paramedic has also sinned against God, however "good" he may be in our human eyes. You don't understand how bad sin is in God's eyes, it is exceedingly sinful. (Romans 7:13) Justice has been done for the murderer when Christ took his place for it. As for the paramedic, keep in mind that if, say, he has lusted, that God sees even lust as adultery, and no adulterer can enter the kingdom of heaven.

[I'm looking...I'm looking...I'm...not seeing god's creation. nope nothing. just random chance if anything.] What you are telling me is that every cell in your body and every plant, animal, and mineral on earth all constantly form themselves into order by mere chance. As far as faith goes, that's a much bigger leap than to say that there is a Creator who made these things.

[Fossil record non-existant? Ya right! we know some things died at certain points in time and other things came into existance, how can you possible debate this?] I'm referring to fossils that show a creature halfway between one kind and another. There isn't even one. Don't you find it strange that evolution is proclaimed to be scientific, when there is not even one of those "in between" fossils, or any evidence of any kind?

As for the population problem I posed, you wrote about the flood (I thought you didn't believe the bible) and war. Funny you mention the flood, because if you do the math from the date of the flood, you easily can get about 6 billion people, like we have now. It's amazing how accurate the bible is, isn't it?

[1. Our eye really has no order to it, just an illusion of order. 2. Genetics has no order, just an illusion] If your eye or genetics didn't have order, but were merely an illusion, you'd fall apart and die in seconds. Your cells and every vital part of your body have to function with order or you couldn't live.

[Mesiah=mortal. If mortal=dead then mortal= stay dead. Jesus [] stay dead therefore jesus [] mortal therefore jesus [] mesiah.[] means does not =.] Messiah does not equal mortal. Jesus said His name is I AM, the same eternal name of God given to Moses at the burning bush. Jesus is also the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, also called Eternal Father. He is not mortal, but is alive now, risin from the grave. It is Jesus who will judge you, please don't allow yourself to be guilty on that Day, but repent (turn from sin) and trust Him to save you today. He is faithful to save you from hell. I beg of you for your own life to get saved. I don't want to see you being cast into hell. God showed you and I grace (unmerited favor). Take it while you are still breathing.

"And whatever the dating of any gospel, the church didn't "pick and choose", but rather recognized the fakes and had nothing to do with them." [thats called selling a product] Eliminating fake documents and only keeping those speaking truth isn't selling a product. Those who were alive at the time of Christ and those following knew which documents were fake and didn't allow them to be included with the real thing. It's a matter of maintaining truth, not selling something.

-Taking one bit of data and saying it is true and only it is true is called marketing, fixing stats, whatever. You assume the documents were right and the people were honest but that can only be proven true if the people had nothing to gain but they had everything to gain.

[Its not fair. The genocidal maniac gets into heaven but the paramedic who saves lives every day and never means to do anyone harm doesnt.] Keep in mind, that paramedic has also sinned against God, however "good" he may be in our human eyes. You don't understand how bad sin is in God's eyes, it is exceedingly sinful. (Romans 7:13) Justice has been done for the murderer when Christ took his place for it. As for the paramedic, keep in mind that if, say, he has lusted, that God sees even lust as adultery, and no adulterer can enter the kingdom of heaven.

-I think it is a really bad system. Compasion, curtesy, respect, these all mean NOTHING! This system is the reverse of the Jewish teachings. Where those mean everything and belief means little to nothing. Quite a change.

[I'm looking...I'm looking...I'm...not seeing god's creation. nope nothing. just random chance if anything.] What you are telling me is that every cell in your body and every plant, animal, and mineral on earth all constantly form themselves into order by mere chance. As far as faith goes, that's a much bigger leap than to say that there is a Creator who made these things.

-Time is infinite, you cannot deny with infinite time something is bound to go right

[Fossil record non-existant? Ya right! we know some things died at certain points in time and other things came into existance, how can you possible debate this?] I'm referring to fossils that show a creature halfway between one kind and another. There isn't even one. Don't you find it strange that evolution is proclaimed to be scientific, when there is not even one of those "in between" fossils, or any evidence of any kind?

-It is obvious species came into existence and left existence. The species on the planet changed over time. All species are between species at every generation, so you can't say that there are no links.

As for the population problem I posed, you wrote about the flood (I thought you didn't believe the bible) and war. Funny you mention the flood, because if you do the math from the date of the flood, you easily can get about 6 billion people, like we have now. It's amazing how accurate the bible is, isn't it?

I said that there are historical events in the bible presented in a mythical way. I could go into great detail explaining the historical moses. He was a general and used the terrain and strange tactics to evade the enemy and crossed the rd sea at low tide when there was only mud. There was a flood, this doesnt prove the earth is young. We can date rocks much farther back and we can use magnetic strips at the bottom of the ocean to date it to older than the flood.

[1. Our eye really has no order to it, just an illusion of order. 2. Genetics has no order, just an illusion] If your eye or genetics didn't have order, but were merely an illusion, you'd fall apart and die in seconds. Your cells and every vital part of your body have to function with order or you couldn't live.

-I mean the way it appears ordered is an illusion, not the actual genetics and eyes.

[Mesiah=mortal. If mortal=dead then mortal= stay dead. Jesus [] stay dead therefore jesus [] mortal therefore jesus [] mesiah.[] means does not =.] Messiah does not equal mortal. Jesus said His name is I AM, the same eternal name of God given to Moses at the burning bush. Jesus is also the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, also called Eternal Father. He is not mortal, but is alive now, risin from the grave. It is Jesus who will judge you, please don't allow yourself to be guilty on that Day, but repent (turn from sin) and trust Him to save you today. He is faithful to save you from hell. I beg of you for your own life to get saved. I don't want to see you being cast into hell. God showed you and I grace (unmerited favor). Take it while you are still breathing.

-You can't define the mesiah by Jesus, he must be held to the original criterea. Mesiah = mortal. jesus <> mortal. therefore jesus<> mesiah.

Hi, I hope you guys don't mind my butting in, but I love evolution and can't sit idly by. Just a few bulletpoints:

--Transitional fossils:

There are a ton of em. Indeed, every fossil is a transitional fossil, like Dr. Smart said. Just some examples that pop into my mind:

1. Archaeopteryx, the first bird. An extremely reptilian bird; arguably more of a birdlike reptile.

2. The ancestors of the horse: tiny little things that for whatever reason, got bigger throughout the eons.

3. The terrestrial ancestors of the whales. I don't know their names, but man those were some weird creatures.

4. And of course, the hominids. Throughout the strata of time we can see them getting taller, growing bigger brain cases, losing the huge jaw.

So, numerous different periods of evolution are captured nice and neat in the fossil record, and they are all a transition from one form to another.

--Human population should be in the trillions.

Why?? I'm gonna need this one explained to me. Are you just assuming birth rates and death rates are constant throughout time?

--Irreducible complexity

Irreducible complexity is a propostion, not a fact. There is no evidence for it. It is mere speculation. Speculation is fine, but it is not science. It is only the inspiration for science. If Dr. Behe asserts that certain aspects of life are too complex to arise by chance, then he needs to do some research to back that claim up. As it stands now, it is simply a bald assertion made from his armchair. It's pseudoscience. I will begin to take this idea seriously when there is some actual research done on it.

Well put, especially that last one. Creationist scientists calculated that life has a 1 in a decatillion or so chance of arising. So what? We got lucky, chances are meaningless unless there is evidence for a more likely thing.