User: old faithful

Unforuntely Caleb has to agree with you about a great number of teachers. I don't find this as true with elementary or high school. Middle School teachers seem to have the largest number of teachers who are teaching and don't want to.

But let's be fair to the group of wonderful people who giving their lives to teaching and love it and don't want to do anything else. Every student knows who those teaches are and they know the ones who don't give a rip.

Oh how I wish you were wrong Count Zero. But you are correct about some teachers. I don't know the national statistics, but in my area I would say that about a third of the teachers are there because they have to be there.

They are the ones who are creating the problems for the 2/3 teachers who are great. In your area I wouldn't try to guess the percentages.

Unfortuantely I know. I taught with them! I sympathized with the students who were in their classes. I even counseled some of them and bailed them out of trouble that they didn't deserve.

I loved teaching. I would do it again, if I had health enough to teach a whole day. I don't. I am doing volunteer work at the school though. Just one hour to help a troubled student. I wish I could do more.

There are seven generations of teachers in my family. No they are not directly descended but there is a teacher in every generation going back for 7 generations. My mother was a teacher and a great one. She went way and beyond what was required.

Caleb

========== In Reply To ========== Teachers are uptight period

They went into teaching because they failed at whatever else they want to do in life

Nobody wants to be a teacher. They do it because their dreams never happened.

Like Mr. Holland's Opus

I made sure I was on my e-mail address first before I posted. Your last post has been my point all along. We seem to agree, we just didn't understand each other for some reason.

You are absolutely right. Pee and crap are bodily functions that can't always be controlled. We agree.

Yes, detention is the proper punishment for misbehavior or continuous asking to leave class when it is not necessary for most schools. Each school is different so I suppose that there are other alternatives. In elementary, recesses can be taken. Conduct points can be taken off the conduct grade. It depends on the school and the age and the set up of the school.

I am so glad the you Count Zero and I have come to an agreement.

I still hold my teachers license. I am certified in K-12 music and grades 1-6 in music and can teach social studies in the 7th and 8th grades. I am retired. I have enough stories I could tell to convince you of that. But I don't want to crowd up all the posts with my pedigrees. I was very respected as a curriculum writer for the social studies in grades k-12 for my state for two series of curriculum guides. I can tell you all about lesson plans, strategies for learning, memory technics, the art of keeping the class's attention and I could go on and on.

I'm at the point where I make mistakes now and then. Computers are not my forte and I get messed up on them. With three grown boys in my house and everyone having their own e-mail, it can get wild. And they never close out anything they do. And I forget to close and start up. So it can get wild at my house.

Our misunderstanding was just over terms. Some post pointed that out. I've forgotten what they said, but just because something is a right doesn't mean it can't be taken away. A right is something you have until you lose it. A previldge is something you earn. I know that much, but let's not worry about terminology so much. If we both agree how it should be done, then as far as I'm concerned all is OK.

So we agree, if a kid is about to pee, crap or vomit, we both want that kid in the bathroom, not stinking up the room.

As a teacher I didn't have any accidents in sixth grade except one where a girl was having problems with her period and there was nothing she could have done to prevent it.

I did have two accidents in the fifth grade. Both wetting accidents. The first one was partly my fault. It happened during the first month I taught. The second one was a boy who had very little feeling and he would forget to go to the restroom then all of a sudden he had to go. He ask and I let him go and he didn't make it. I told his mother that she should have let the teachers know of his condition/I told the boy just to get up from now on and run if necessary. I also made sure he went during every scheduled break. He didn't have any other problems after that.

I never had any problems with high school students. I only taught high school at the end of my career. If I had known what I know now I would have taught high school sooner. High school kids are great.

Thanks for posting. You kept my post lively for a while.

I'm not old, I am disabled. I am not 60 yet, though to you I am probably very old.

Caleb

========= In Reply To ========== Man your arguments are stupid

Having to go to the bathroom is something you need to do. Got nothing to do with reward or punishment.

You might as well 'punish' or 'reward' somebody by not letting them breathe or letting them breathe or not letting them eat or letting them eat.

These are biological functions man. You either do them or get seriously messed up.

You want to punish somebody, give em detention. Not letting somebody go to the bathroom when they need to, just ends up with $%!@ and $%!@ all over the class. That's punishing the whole class, the teachers and the janitors and messes up the school.

You think anybody's gonna be doing any learning in a class where somebody just $%!@ed themselves?

Messed up $%!@ like I said

My sincereist apologies. I was using the computer and my son's e-mail address was activated. Pardon me for posting this under his name. Old Faithful alias Caleb wrote the post.

I am sorry I didn't catch the error before I posted.

Sorry, Caleb

========== In Reply To ========== I am trying to follow your insructions on how to reply to a poll. I if I am still doing it wrong, I will contact the manager and find out how to do it.

Now about the personal attacks on me, the author of this poll. I sincerely hope that the majority of people reading this poll are not impressed with your constant attacks on me.

You accussed me of being a foreigner. Well I'm sure our immigrants and people from other countries reading this poll were not amused by your remarks.

Then you accuse me of owning slaves. What a compliment. You think that I am now just celebrating my 434th birthday. Quite a record. Since I knew every one in American history for four hundred years I should be in high demand for interviews.

We are all kin to each other. If you go back far enough you will find wonderful ancestors, and you will find horse thieves. Everyone has ancestors who were slaves and everyone has ancestors who were slave owners. Slavery has been around since time began. Slaves were people who lost the last war. Every culture has won and lost wars.

So join me as the slave owner and you be the slave and pee in your pants,then join me as a slave owner and watch me as the slave pee in mine. Maybe we would both feel better. I an just kiding of course.

The fact is you don't know your grammer.

Yes I taught school for 28 years. If a teacher told a student that they couldn't go to the restroom and the teacher admitted that it was an emergency and told the student to wet his/her pants. I would sue the teacher if I were the parents in civil court and I would win.

Yes, I had students like you. I always won them over. I took a while. But I rarely failed. First I didn't allow students to distrupt class. The students had to come to me privately and explain thier problem. No one in the class needed to know what their problem was. Now, if a student yelled out stuff like Hey I need to pee or something like that. I sent them to the restroom. When they returned they had demarits waiting on them for distrupting class. I told my class if they suddenly became ill regardless if it was pee, crap, vomit, nose, or girls period to get up and leave immediately. I sent a student of my chosing to check on them. If they were faking it, they had days of detention to serve.

What you did wrong was play in the bathroom. Yes, you should have been punished for that. I alwas did when the students were caught. The restrooms were in view of my room. And three teachers were a team to watch that restroom. So, we didn't have problems like you described very often. Yes they tried it. If stuents abused the restroom, they got detention if they had to leave during class. There were a few, not in my room, who were banned from the restroom during class for misbehavior. That is fine. If they have gone down and repeatedly played around in the restroom during class, then if they develop an emergency they lost their "right" to the restroom. If they wet their pants. Sorry. But they still have a right to use a restroom that was built specifically for the purpose of the children using it. They still had a right to use it during breaks. Those restrooms weren't put there for any other reason than children using the restroom.

While on campus which is restricted, teachers don't have the right to take away a restroom visit during class for a student unless that student has shown gross or repeated misbehavior.

I know what I am talking about and I know that some students have to be told no every time. But you don't punish everyone for the actions of a few.

My wife got a ticket the other day. How would you like for every one in the nation to have to pay the fine she paid. That would make about as much sense.

I'm glad you have an iron bladder. If you live long enough you will get to the point when you can't hold it long when you need to go. Some children are that way from birth.

You really think that I should make a student vomit the the trash can rather then let them go to the restroom?

When a student has diarhea do you really want me to make them mess in their pants?

When I student develops a bladder infection and has to pee every 15 minutes and can't hold it. Do you really want me to let them sit there and over a period of time make a big puddle?

Do you want a girl's blood all over a seat and the back of her pants all red?

One of my girls had a major problem that required surgery. But before her surgery, she did just that and didn't know it. Had she realized it and ask, you really believe I should have told her to go and sit down and bleed all over her chair.

You say parents write a note. Well sometimes these problems arise after the student gets to school.

Quite frankly, I think you are a very insensitive person. Maybe you delight in watching other people pee in their pants. Poor you.

What comes around goes around. If you live long enough, you will wet your pants. People start in diapers, are poddy trained and then when they get old they are back in diapers before they die. If I were a vindictive person, I want you to know when you are at that stage and know that you just wet your pants. But I am not. I just think you are a misguided person, not thinking about what is right.

Forget about the law for a moment. Let's be compassionate. When a teacher realizes that a student really needs to go, they should let them.

As for me, I let them prove that they were faking it then I started punishing.

For the record, I had less students asking to go than the other teachers. That is because I put in 7 adequate breaks a day. By that I mean sometimes there are restroom breaks but there is not enough time to take care of business.

I would go weeks without anyone asking. But every knew that even if there were only one minute left in class and they developed an emergency, I would accept that at least one time. Sure I investigated it and I know students. I knew which ones like you who tried out the teacher.

Guess what? I usually became their favorite teacher. I suspect that if you had been in my room, we would have become best of friends. I had a way with students like you. They usually loved me.

See how much time I have taken with you. I did that with every student who needed attention.

You needed some attention and I have given it to you. My e-mail addres is at the bottom of this page. E-mail me and will talk about this all you want too.

Let's save everyone else from listening to our private conversations about this. Later we can post our conclusions.

I really am a nice guy. I taught K-12 sometime during my career. I spent most of my time in sixth grade. But I taught high school and activity classes K=-12. I also taught fourth grade and fifth grade.

I am a youth director in a church with 30 years experience. I learned to handle high school students without any discipline plan. NO punishment available. It wasn't hard. I have three boys. The youngest a senior. I have my house full of young people all the time. I love young people and they seem to love me. I am retired because of health reasons. Not because I wanted to. I miss the classroom terribly. I love children of all ages. Most of them love me too.

I really wish I had a chance to meet you. I think I could win you over.

Best of regards to you.

Thanks for stating your opinions. We may not end up agreeing but I still won't hold that against you. I am just not that kind of person.

Author of this poll Caleb

You say bring a note.

========== In Reply To ========== I mean what kinda normal people spend all this time talkin about going to the bathroom?

You do your buisness, wipe your $%!@ and go on with your $%!@ing day

Riuhty?

Right!

Kick $%!@!

Count Zero

Let's be serious. I am a professional trying to help children who are abused by teachers by denying them restroom visits.

I agree with you at the top. If teachers would follow your suggestion, we wouldn't have this poll

Your are right let all the children do exactly word for word what you said at the top. I would settle for that in a heart beat. We wouldn't need this discussion. When chidlren at school need to go, let them go and wipe their bottoms and get on with their day.

I couldn't agree more.

========== In Reply To ========== doesn't anybody read the sacred bill of rights in our united states constitution anymore?

Stupoid damned foreigners!

Reply:

I am not a foreigner. My ancesters were in Jamestown, Virginia,the first permanent settlement. My family has been here 400 years. I wrote this poll because I am tired of seeing children abused by denying them restroom visits. I have seen children punished for something they did by taking away all restroom visits for a whole day. That is 7 hours. That is inhumane. Prisons can't do that. Federal Courts have ruled that they can't do that. So why should children be treated this way?

Now you are right. Public urination is a privildge in public places. It is not required for the city government to provide restrooms for public use. However, restaurent are now required to provide restrooms. Other public facilities have to meet bathroom guidlines. I am talking about stadiums, arenas and such. Public school also have to provide by law restrooms that meet certain codes including the handicapped.

Now why would the state require a restroom to meet those guidlines if students weren't allowed to use them?

I am a retired teacher and know of too many chidren who had accidents because the teacher wouldn't let them go. In many cases the teacher knew that they were in an emergency and the rule was you will have to sit there and wet your pants. Some schools only allow the children one break at lunch time. OSHA has rules for adults that require employers to provide access to a restroom. That is federal law. So in the work force going to the restroom is a right not a priviledge. Since children are at school for 7 hours or so, I would say they should qualify to meet those same OSHA requirments.